Discussions on POI 4.0 / Java7/8 voting

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Discussions on POI 4.0 / Java7/8 voting

kiwiwings
Hi,

I'd like to add a note to the final announcement about the JDK change and
link a vote thread to it.

We've discussed about Java 7 [4], but as a few projects around us already have
switched to Java 8 [1], I want an official vote about Java 7/8.
As I anticipate a bit of controversy on this, I want to discuss first and then
have a separate vote thread to be linked to from the announcement.

Up till now I have 3 questions to vote -
is there anything else, we should vote on for version 4.0?
For the sake of simplicity, they aren't in the -1/0/1 response format.


a) Is the next version 4.0 or do we have a 3.18?
b) Which will be the next Java SE 7 or 8?

The guidelines [2] are actually clear about this, but I'll ask that anyway:
c) Will you join an opposing majority?


Here are my votes:
a) 4.0
b) JDK8
c) yes


Regarding b)
As we have a major break here and Java 7 is already at EOL [3], I'd like to
use the opportunity to fast forward. When I look through a few rendering/AWT
related bugs which occur in Java 6, I often see those are only fixed in Java 8.
I have the impression, that dependent libraries/products either are dependent on
older features and therefore can stick with 3.17 ... or they have already a
current Java 8 compatible version out.

To make up you mind, check [5] for a different stance on EOL/upgrading.
For a quantitative list of POI dependencies check [6]

Andi


[1]
http://ant.apache.org/antnews.html#Apache Ant 1.9.8 and 1.10.0
http://apache-xml-project.6118.n7.nabble.com/Java-2-1-0-release-td43800.html
[2] https://www.apache.org/foundation/voting.html
[3] http://www.oracle.com/technetwork/java/eol-135779.html
[4] http://apache-poi.1045710.n5.nabble.com/Java-6-support-td5721373.html
[5] https://spring.io/blog/2015/04/01/ongoing-support-for-java-7-and-even-java-6
[6] https://github.com/centic9/github-version-statistics



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Re: Discussions on POI 4.0 / Java7/8 voting

Javen O'Neal-2
a) 4.0
b) JDK8
c) yes, of course.

How many releases into the 4.x series will we allow for API breaks? If we
need to make all of our API changes by the time 4.0 final releases, then we
might have a few more 4.0 betas than other releases (and probably wouldn't
be ready for 4.0 final until Q2 2018).

On Sun, Aug 20, 2017 at 4:06 PM, Andreas Beeker <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I'd like to add a note to the final announcement about the JDK change and
> link a vote thread to it.
>
> We've discussed about Java 7 [4], but as a few projects around us already
> have
> switched to Java 8 [1], I want an official vote about Java 7/8.
> As I anticipate a bit of controversy on this, I want to discuss first and
> then
> have a separate vote thread to be linked to from the announcement.
>
> Up till now I have 3 questions to vote -
> is there anything else, we should vote on for version 4.0?
> For the sake of simplicity, they aren't in the -1/0/1 response format.
>
>
> a) Is the next version 4.0 or do we have a 3.18?
> b) Which will be the next Java SE 7 or 8?
>
> The guidelines [2] are actually clear about this, but I'll ask that anyway:
> c) Will you join an opposing majority?
>
>
> Here are my votes:
> a) 4.0
> b) JDK8
> c) yes
>
>
> Regarding b)
> As we have a major break here and Java 7 is already at EOL [3], I'd like to
> use the opportunity to fast forward. When I look through a few
> rendering/AWT
> related bugs which occur in Java 6, I often see those are only fixed in
> Java 8.
> I have the impression, that dependent libraries/products either are
> dependent on
> older features and therefore can stick with 3.17 ... or they have already a
> current Java 8 compatible version out.
>
> To make up you mind, check [5] for a different stance on EOL/upgrading.
> For a quantitative list of POI dependencies check [6]
>
> Andi
>
>
> [1]
> http://ant.apache.org/antnews.html#Apache Ant 1.9.8 and 1.10.0
> http://apache-xml-project.6118.n7.nabble.com/Java-2-1-0-
> release-td43800.html
> [2] https://www.apache.org/foundation/voting.html
> [3] http://www.oracle.com/technetwork/java/eol-135779.html
> [4] http://apache-poi.1045710.n5.nabble.com/Java-6-support-td5721373.html
> [5] https://spring.io/blog/2015/04/01/ongoing-support-for-
> java-7-and-even-java-6
> [6] https://github.com/centic9/github-version-statistics
>
>
>
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Re: Discussions on POI 4.0 / Java7/8 voting

Yegor Kozlov-4
In reply to this post by kiwiwings
a) 4.0
b) JDK 1.7
JDK 1.8 might be an acceptance killer for Apache Tika, one of our major
consumers, as Tika still compiles on JDK 1.7. It makes sense to drop a line
to @tika-dev and confirm it.

c) yes

On Mon, Aug 21, 2017 at 2:06 AM, Andreas Beeker <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I'd like to add a note to the final announcement about the JDK change and
> link a vote thread to it.
>
> We've discussed about Java 7 [4], but as a few projects around us already
> have
> switched to Java 8 [1], I want an official vote about Java 7/8.
> As I anticipate a bit of controversy on this, I want to discuss first and
> then
> have a separate vote thread to be linked to from the announcement.
>
> Up till now I have 3 questions to vote -
> is there anything else, we should vote on for version 4.0?
> For the sake of simplicity, they aren't in the -1/0/1 response format.
>
>
> a) Is the next version 4.0 or do we have a 3.18?
> b) Which will be the next Java SE 7 or 8?
>
> The guidelines [2] are actually clear about this, but I'll ask that anyway:
> c) Will you join an opposing majority?
>
>
> Here are my votes:
> a) 4.0
> b) JDK8
> c) yes
>
>
> Regarding b)
> As we have a major break here and Java 7 is already at EOL [3], I'd like to
> use the opportunity to fast forward. When I look through a few
> rendering/AWT
> related bugs which occur in Java 6, I often see those are only fixed in
> Java 8.
> I have the impression, that dependent libraries/products either are
> dependent on
> older features and therefore can stick with 3.17 ... or they have already a
> current Java 8 compatible version out.
>
> To make up you mind, check [5] for a different stance on EOL/upgrading.
> For a quantitative list of POI dependencies check [6]
>
> Andi
>
>
> [1]
> http://ant.apache.org/antnews.html#Apache Ant 1.9.8 and 1.10.0
> http://apache-xml-project.6118.n7.nabble.com/Java-2-1-0-
> release-td43800.html
> [2] https://www.apache.org/foundation/voting.html
> [3] http://www.oracle.com/technetwork/java/eol-135779.html
> [4] http://apache-poi.1045710.n5.nabble.com/Java-6-support-td5721373.html
> [5] https://spring.io/blog/2015/04/01/ongoing-support-for-
> java-7-and-even-java-6
> [6] https://github.com/centic9/github-version-statistics
>
>
>
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Re: Discussions on POI 4.0 / Java7/8 voting

kiwiwings
In reply to this post by Javen O'Neal-2
Javen O'Neal-2 wrote
How many releases into the 4.x series will we allow for API breaks? If we
need to make all of our API changes by the time 4.0 final releases, then we
might have a few more 4.0 betas than other releases (and probably wouldn't
be ready for 4.0 final until Q2 2018).
I forgot to mention a voting about semantic versioning:
d) apply semantic versioning for 4.0.0+?

So we would have 4.0.1/.2... instead of the betas.
The problem with our beta-approach vs. semantic versioning is, that we can
have breaks in newly introduced APIs - and patch/minor versions ought to be backwards-compatible.
If this contradiction is ok for you, I would say, as long as we keep pushing the patch versions,
we can keep changing the API.


Yegor Kozlov-4 wrote
JDK 1.8 might be an acceptance killer for Apache Tika, one of our major
consumers, as Tika still compiles on JDK 1.7. It makes sense to drop a line
to @tika-dev and confirm it.
When writing the initial mail, I thought about this.
... but I like to have the feedback first of the POI PMCs.

Andi
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Re: Discussions on POI 4.0 / Java7/8 voting

Yegor Kozlov-4
+1 to the semantic versioning

On Mon, Aug 21, 2017 at 1:32 PM, kiwiwings <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Javen O'Neal-2 wrote
> > How many releases into the 4.x series will we allow for API breaks? If we
> > need to make all of our API changes by the time 4.0 final releases, then
> > we
> > might have a few more 4.0 betas than other releases (and probably
> wouldn't
> > be ready for 4.0 final until Q2 2018).
>
> I forgot to mention a voting about semantic versioning:
> d) apply semantic versioning for 4.0.0+?
>
> So we would have 4.0.1/.2... instead of the betas.
> The problem with our beta-approach vs. semantic versioning is, that we can
> have breaks in newly introduced APIs - and patch/minor versions ought to be
> backwards-compatible.
> If this contradiction is ok for you, I would say, as long as we keep
> pushing
> the patch versions,
> we can keep changing the API.
>
>
>
> Yegor Kozlov-4 wrote
> > JDK 1.8 might be an acceptance killer for Apache Tika, one of our major
> > consumers, as Tika still compiles on JDK 1.7. It makes sense to drop a
> > line
> > to @tika-dev and confirm it.
>
> When writing the initial mail, I thought about this.
> ... but I like to have the feedback first of the POI PMCs.
>
> Andi
>
>
>
> --
> View this message in context: http://apache-poi.1045710.n5.
> nabble.com/Discussions-on-POI-4-0-Java7-8-voting-tp5728560p5728564.html
> Sent from the POI - Dev mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [hidden email]
> For additional commands, e-mail: [hidden email]
>
>
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Re: Discussions on POI 4.0 / Java7/8 voting

pj.fanning
In reply to this post by Javen O'Neal-2
My votes are:

a) 4.0
b) JDK8 (if Tika team agrees to upgrade)
c) yes
d) semver
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Re: Discussions on POI 4.0 / Java7/8 voting

Javen O'Neal-2
a) 4.0
b) JDK8
c) yes, of course.
d) +1 for sematic versioning.

On Aug 21, 2017 09:40, "pj.fanning" <[hidden email]> wrote:

> My votes are:
>
> a) 4.0
> b) JDK8 (if Tika team agrees to upgrade)
> c) yes
> d) semver
>
>
>
> --
> View this message in context: http://apache-poi.1045710.n5.
> nabble.com/Discussions-on-POI-4-0-Java7-8-voting-tp5728560p5728566.html
> Sent from the POI - Dev mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [hidden email]
> For additional commands, e-mail: [hidden email]
>
>
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Re: Discussions on POI 4.0 / Java7/8 voting

Greg Woolsey
In reply to this post by kiwiwings
I'm of two minds regarding 4.0 vs. 3.18.  I know there are big changes in
discussion, that would warrant a major version, but I'm suspicious I'll
find in the next 3 months something else in formula evaluation/conditional
formatting/table styles that requires a POI bug fix, and I'd like for that
to not need to wait until a major API breaking release to get out in a
release.

That sounds like a maintenance branch to me, but I don't generally like
those very much.  So I'm not sure where I stand.

I'm leaning more toward calling a 4.0 release, since we know we want to
make those changes, and my reservations are only about unknowns, nothing
concrete.  I suppose I could get behind a 4.0 next, with the possibility of
taking the lead if needed on a possible 3.18 backport branch for bug fixes
if something significant pops up.

So my voting:

A) 4.0
B) JDK8 (7 is fine but I don't have any use/need for it)
C) yes

On Sun, Aug 20, 2017 at 4:06 PM Andreas Beeker <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I'd like to add a note to the final announcement about the JDK change and
> link a vote thread to it.
>
> We've discussed about Java 7 [4], but as a few projects around us already
> have
> switched to Java 8 [1], I want an official vote about Java 7/8.
> As I anticipate a bit of controversy on this, I want to discuss first and
> then
> have a separate vote thread to be linked to from the announcement.
>
> Up till now I have 3 questions to vote -
> is there anything else, we should vote on for version 4.0?
> For the sake of simplicity, they aren't in the -1/0/1 response format.
>
>
> a) Is the next version 4.0 or do we have a 3.18?
> b) Which will be the next Java SE 7 or 8?
>
> The guidelines [2] are actually clear about this, but I'll ask that anyway:
> c) Will you join an opposing majority?
>
>
> Here are my votes:
> a) 4.0
> b) JDK8
> c) yes
>
>
> Regarding b)
> As we have a major break here and Java 7 is already at EOL [3], I'd like to
> use the opportunity to fast forward. When I look through a few
> rendering/AWT
> related bugs which occur in Java 6, I often see those are only fixed in
> Java 8.
> I have the impression, that dependent libraries/products either are
> dependent on
> older features and therefore can stick with 3.17 ... or they have already a
> current Java 8 compatible version out.
>
> To make up you mind, check [5] for a different stance on EOL/upgrading.
> For a quantitative list of POI dependencies check [6]
>
> Andi
>
>
> [1]
> http://ant.apache.org/antnews.html#Apache Ant 1.9.8 and 1.10.0
>
> http://apache-xml-project.6118.n7.nabble.com/Java-2-1-0-release-td43800.html
> [2] https://www.apache.org/foundation/voting.html
> [3] http://www.oracle.com/technetwork/java/eol-135779.html
> [4] http://apache-poi.1045710.n5.nabble.com/Java-6-support-td5721373.html
> [5]
> https://spring.io/blog/2015/04/01/ongoing-support-for-java-7-and-even-java-6
> [6] https://github.com/centic9/github-version-statistics
>
>
>
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Re: Discussions on POI 4.0 / Java7/8 voting

Dominik Stadler
Hi,

a) 4.0, with 3.18 bugfix release if necessary
b) JDK 1.8 as long as Tika can handle it or requires JDK 8 as well then
c) yes
d) yes, semver

Dominik.

On Tue, Aug 22, 2017 at 6:52 PM, Greg Woolsey <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> I'm of two minds regarding 4.0 vs. 3.18.  I know there are big changes in
> discussion, that would warrant a major version, but I'm suspicious I'll
> find in the next 3 months something else in formula evaluation/conditional
> formatting/table styles that requires a POI bug fix, and I'd like for that
> to not need to wait until a major API breaking release to get out in a
> release.
>
> That sounds like a maintenance branch to me, but I don't generally like
> those very much.  So I'm not sure where I stand.
>
> I'm leaning more toward calling a 4.0 release, since we know we want to
> make those changes, and my reservations are only about unknowns, nothing
> concrete.  I suppose I could get behind a 4.0 next, with the possibility of
> taking the lead if needed on a possible 3.18 backport branch for bug fixes
> if something significant pops up.
>
> So my voting:
>
> A) 4.0
> B) JDK8 (7 is fine but I don't have any use/need for it)
> C) yes
>
> On Sun, Aug 20, 2017 at 4:06 PM Andreas Beeker <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
> > Hi,
> >
> > I'd like to add a note to the final announcement about the JDK change and
> > link a vote thread to it.
> >
> > We've discussed about Java 7 [4], but as a few projects around us already
> > have
> > switched to Java 8 [1], I want an official vote about Java 7/8.
> > As I anticipate a bit of controversy on this, I want to discuss first and
> > then
> > have a separate vote thread to be linked to from the announcement.
> >
> > Up till now I have 3 questions to vote -
> > is there anything else, we should vote on for version 4.0?
> > For the sake of simplicity, they aren't in the -1/0/1 response format.
> >
> >
> > a) Is the next version 4.0 or do we have a 3.18?
> > b) Which will be the next Java SE 7 or 8?
> >
> > The guidelines [2] are actually clear about this, but I'll ask that
> anyway:
> > c) Will you join an opposing majority?
> >
> >
> > Here are my votes:
> > a) 4.0
> > b) JDK8
> > c) yes
> >
> >
> > Regarding b)
> > As we have a major break here and Java 7 is already at EOL [3], I'd like
> to
> > use the opportunity to fast forward. When I look through a few
> > rendering/AWT
> > related bugs which occur in Java 6, I often see those are only fixed in
> > Java 8.
> > I have the impression, that dependent libraries/products either are
> > dependent on
> > older features and therefore can stick with 3.17 ... or they have
> already a
> > current Java 8 compatible version out.
> >
> > To make up you mind, check [5] for a different stance on EOL/upgrading.
> > For a quantitative list of POI dependencies check [6]
> >
> > Andi
> >
> >
> > [1]
> > http://ant.apache.org/antnews.html#Apache Ant 1.9.8 and 1.10.0
> >
> > http://apache-xml-project.6118.n7.nabble.com/Java-2-1-0-
> release-td43800.html
> > [2] https://www.apache.org/foundation/voting.html
> > [3] http://www.oracle.com/technetwork/java/eol-135779.html
> > [4] http://apache-poi.1045710.n5.nabble.com/Java-6-support-
> td5721373.html
> > [5]
> > https://spring.io/blog/2015/04/01/ongoing-support-for-
> java-7-and-even-java-6
> > [6] https://github.com/centic9/github-version-statistics
> >
> >
> >
>